Tue, 06/09/2009 - 17:18
I've been wanting to make a game for awhile where you take the role of a villain but not like in all the commercial titles where you're actually just like a hero. The end boss of a game can beat most opponents alone in ten seconds or less like they're swatting down flies and this character is going to end up being one of those instead of having to stab an opponent a thousand times to do any lethal damage.
And demoralizing monologues and the like will be just as important as that.
I don't really know how to do it while keeping the character challenged though. Althought they do swat people down like flies that's story, not gameplay. So how do you keep a mastermind challenged while they eliminate or otherwise remove names from their enemy list?
Edit: this is basically a topic about me not knowing how to write a story ¬_¬ Specifically I need to learn how to basically have superheroes outwit each other.
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 14:54
#2
I'm best suited for making an
I'm best suited for making an RPG. I thought I'd start it off in the usual cliche fantasy setting but with repercussions really changing the place. I've thought out a lot of little things but I haven't been able to make much progress with the where the large scale plot needs to go.
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 16:35
#3
More clarification
Are you thinking of having a party system where you have minions? Or is it just one person against the world?
Does combat involve strategy and positioning or is it like Old school final fantasy where everyone lines up and takes turns swatting at each other?
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 19:42
#4
I was gonna use the final
I was gonna use the final fantasy set up but without it being swinging swords at each other. It'll be abstract and "winning" that battle would like executing all the movements correctly to pull off the pile drive from space type of attack to finish off some enemy or criticizing someone in ways that really impact them.\
There's so much flexibility there that I'm going to have to limit how I use it just so that people can tell what's going on.
As for party I wanted the character to be a mastermind instead of just some demi-god, that way they can use other people strategically and use resources effectively instead of, you know, just dropping a steamroller on every obstacle.
I could do a strategy combat system too but I don't need to.
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 20:02
#5
Ok, then
So they have a selection of basic moves and use them to build up to a devastating combo?
Perhaps you could have a time based element. The character first chooses the devastating super weapon to wipe the enemy out. They they have to keep the good guys distracted and from kill him while it warms up. More powerful weapons to take out the bigger enemies take more to charge. Your mastermind uses traps, weapons, and well timed evil monologues to keep the good guys busy. You could also set up a witty banter exchange like was used in Monkey Island, the villain would have a selection of remarks available to him ranging from the basic. "That's what your mom said" to the devistating "No, I am your father"
Increasing difficulty would mean having to react faster to the hero's comments and a smaller selection out of the pool that would distract the hero.
Thu, 06/11/2009 - 01:36
#6
Well ya,
I've thought about the ways I can use it plenty but what I came here for was the actual... character development. Other than some of the pace of play it doesn't matter if I do this as a more creative final fantasy game or if I just write it as a book, but that's sort of the problem since I'm prone to writers block and don't really have experience writing characters like this.
One particular pitfall I'm trying to avoid is just writing a perfect version of myself into the story since I view that as being really tacky.
And I'm terrible at abandoning the first solution I think of if it doesn't work so I'm not really suited to the character anyway.
Thu, 06/11/2009 - 09:17
#7
It seems to me
In the development of a game, how the game plays naturally imposes restrictions on what the character is like.
For instance: If the main character is a mastermind, they would typically manage to avoid contact with any would be heroes until the end of the scenario. Game play would be more along the lines of interacting with a map and deploying thugs and leaving false clues to keep the athorities busy with the thugs, and heroes investigating some trap filled random warehouse. While they are busy you execute the primary objective and steal Diamond of Badassedness from the natural history museum.
If your villain is some sort of spy you would end up with a stealthy game of some sort.
If your villain is ex military he might grab his elite band of super soldiers snag the objective and just slaughter his way out.
Another thing we would know is what type of world do you want your villain to operate in?
A future scifi world?
Victorian england
Is the world loaded down with do gooder heroes in need of killing or does he have one nemesis?
In other words give us an environment you need your villain to fit into.
Thu, 06/11/2009 - 17:50
#8
Imentioned that already
Cliche fantasy setting. Might and magic and dungeons and dragons. The space setting would be doable as well but I'd need a way to flip things midway through the game to open up all of that. With a dozen different layers of lost civilizations in a fantasy world there are usually options.
I'm a bit underprepared for the space setting though.
I was thinking they'd begin as some kind of scholar so it would be believable that they tended to know right where some ruin was that would be holding a useful artifact or just act as a tunnel for some terrain advantage but having some secondary character fill that role would work too.
Thu, 06/11/2009 - 20:07
#9
Woops, Sorry
I missed that :p
How about this as a backstory:
C2 was just an ordinary boy growing up in a small village until he was about 5 years old. Around that time a red dragon moved into the neighborhood and began regularly raiding the village for food and treasure. As was to be expected a band of heroes showed up to dispatch the dragon and claim its treasure. These heroes, happening to be particularly lazy examples of their breed, noticed that the dragon showed up on a very predictable schedule and decided just to ambush it in the town. On the day of his birthday (because bad stuff happening on your birthday makes the bad stuff 5 times worse) the dragon showed up to do his usual snacking.
The following paragraph contains content that may not be suitable for all audiences, reader discretion is advised. Seriously, it is twisted, you should just skip this paragraph. No author should ever do to a kid what I am about to do. Don't say I didn't warn you.
C2's parents were dedicated to making sure that his birthday was a happy one, so they barricaded the doors and windows and proceeded to have a normalish birthday party. As his father was bringing in C2's first gift and his mother was putting his birthday cake in the oven, the dragon was taking flight and attempting to flee the heroes. The heroic archer grabbed his special black arrow and proceeded to shoot the dragon in his weak point. The mortally wounded dragon came crashing down... right on top of C2's home. The roof collapsed on top of C2 crushing his left leg and with a spar resting across his throat keeping him from calling out for help. Unfortunately for him he did not pass out. As he lay there helpless he heard the heroes walking across the top of the wreckage of his home and rejoiced because he knew they must be coming to rescue him. Instead he got to listen to a 3 hour argument over who got the +7 shield of uber leetnes that had dropped, followed by a six hour argument over who got to keep the dragon's head. Finally they stopped arguing and fell to drinking, carousing, and dancing... on top of his ruined home. Each time the heroes stepped on the wrong place the beam crushing C2's leg shifted, sending a searing bolt of agony through his entire body. Finally, around noon the next day, the heroes gathered their loot and wandered off. The villages came and began rooting through the wreckage to see if they could find any survivors. It was still another day before they managed to extract C2. As C2 was pulled from the wreckage he saw that fully half of the town had been destroyed, and a large portion of the livestock had escaped. They next found his father who had been knocked down and impaled on the toy sword that he was bringing to C2. When they eventually found his mother they tried to keep him from finding out what happened, but he found out that she had been knocked head first into the oven. She had been pinned in there, drowning on the cake batter and slowly burning to death.
See, I told you that you should have skipped that paragraph.
To summarize:
He now either has a badly mangled leg or perhaps just a stump.
He can only speak in a whisper.
He has vowed to never use a weapon (or maybe just sword's specifically)
He wants nothing to do with fire.
Bad thing happen when he is around cake.
He has an extremely good reason to hate heroes.
The village, lacking food or shelter for a cripple who wouldn't be able to help repair the town, packed C2 off to a monastery. While at the monastery he dedicated himself to learning everything that he could so that one day he could rid the world of all heroes. Eventually he finds a book of evil that will let him become a litch/ create a set of rings that will allow him to rule the world/ overcome his crippling fear of chocolate cake. Further research reveals that a number of the relics he needs to achieve his goal are currently possessed by a number of unsavory characters who will not part willingly with them. He works out a master plan that eventually leads him to choose to become a mage at his coming of age ceremony. He learns enough magic to qualify as level 1 mage and finds a group of heroes who could use a mage and convinces them that a great deal of treasure can be found at (location of relic 1) Now he can begin gathering what he needs to accomplish his plan, and probably get a bunch of heroes killed off in the process.
Seriously, you should have skipped that paragraph :P
Fri, 06/12/2009 - 03:31
#10
I think I'd swap the cake out
I think I'd swap the cake out for some generic dinner stuffs since a cake seems kind of luxurious for peasants living in a town that's been having dragon troubles for awhile but that was pretty interesting.
There any significance in referring to him as C2 or do you just skip 1 for placeholders?
Fri, 06/12/2009 - 07:29
#11
ehehehe
I just thought drowning in a birthday cake was hilarious. :P
I used C1 in my world building post, and wanted to make sure I didn't confuse myself. :D
Fri, 06/12/2009 - 16:42
#12
I was kinda hoping this place
I was kinda hoping this place would be active enough that I'd get ideas from more than one person though :/
Fri, 06/12/2009 - 21:52
#13
I suspect that you would get
I suspect that you would get more activity if you used a different approach. Most of the users of this forum are active writers. If they come up with a good villain for use in a cliche fantasy environment, they are going to use him in their own story, not pass him off to some random person encountered on an internet forum.
Try instead presenting the character that you have developed, and the reasons that you are having difficulties with him. You will probably get a lot more responses on how to improve an existing character.
And be patient, I get the feeling that posters here are not as dedicated to avoiding work as I am.
Fri, 06/12/2009 - 22:32
#14
So l2communicate. Well, I'll
So l2communicate. Well, I'll work on it.
Mon, 06/15/2009 - 19:13
#15
Ok, I'm gonna explain it correctly this time
Level up!
communication+5
Alright, I wasn't asking for a character. I got talking and forgot why I made this.
What I'm asking for is more situations. How do I stop them from solving every problem easily but without using unsolvable problems?
Sat, 06/20/2009 - 22:37
#16
Given the type of combat you
Given the type of combat you appear to have in mind I can think of only a couple of ways to control difficulty. It seems that you want your character to be able to defeat large numbers of enemies easily.
One, difficulty in volume. If their character can easily defeat 10 enemies at once, then send 15.
Difficulty from scarcity of resources. Limit access to mana pots, health pots, ammo and whatever else they have available.
Various types of damages. For instance, attack them with enemies that are based of fire and ice. If the character uses an AE fire attack they kill all the ice creatures, but increase the strength of the fire creatures.
Sun, 06/21/2009 - 17:37
#17
I meant more scenario-y.
I meant more scenario-y.
They just tamed the gigantic wasp, now how to I stop them from armoring it up and just plunging straight out of the skies into every target thereafter and lopping it's head off without having had to do much work? Anti-air guns/missiles or other flying creatures will get stale if they are everywhere, only so many places can be deep underground, etc.
And I want things more situational than "well they built up and entrenched themselves" anyway. The wasp can be sabotaged but that takes time since other people aren't going to know about it right away.
So basically how do you limit the use of super powers in ways other than "it just doesn't work here" "it's expensive to use" or "you temporarily flat out don't have it right now"?
Mon, 06/22/2009 - 20:58
#18
Hmm
The best I can think of is adaptation by the world. When the character first gains his giant wasp he gets the payoff. He can rampage, Loot, Destroy, and pillage. But the more he does so, the more the world adapts to defend against the wasp, so that it's effectiveness diminishes over time. For example, the national guard moves in and starts placing AA towers in all of the best place. Then the character has to come up with a way to subvert the towers for a time (like poisoning the water supply with a hallucinogen which wears off after x amount of time) or a way around them, like A huge battle tank.
Tue, 06/23/2009 - 01:34
#19
I was trying to give kind of
I was trying to give kind of an off the wall example in hopes of some creative solutions...
Say they gain the ability to pretty much instantly locate weak points in structures, machines, and creatures- can I even give an ability like that while there's much time left to use it?
Wed, 06/24/2009 - 21:42
#20
Hehehe
Sorry, the only way I make it out of the box is with a well placed lever inside the box... and that just means that I defined the box wrong in the first place. Sorry, misplaced engineering humor there :P
A weak point is only as weak as ones ability to exploit it. Knowing the weak point in a death tank is a thin piece of armor on the underside is only useful if you have a land mine, you can get the tank to go over the land mine, and you can detonate the mine while the tank is in the appropriate location.
Sun, 06/28/2009 - 06:12
#21
Writing excitement
What I want is for the act of figuring out a weakness of some sort of other to be heroic- when you're watching or reading something with the protagonist struggling for a solution when it seems obvious to you they were slow
but even worse than that is when their solution feels stupid, which mostly applies to rules that seemed to not exist until they needed to be exploited.
...my character may actually use some of those but in a premeditated way (they're a villain so cheating is ok.)
I guess this is the sort of thing I need to ask -someone who writes a lot of mystery- about since I'm trying to steer clear of Scooby Doo and slothful deductions.
Sun, 07/05/2009 - 21:13
#22
I've got some more
I've got some more explanation for the problem with having a giant wasp or earthquake machine compliments of the art of war:
-All warfare is based on deception.
Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.-
This is the real bravado of a mastermind tactician so I don't just want ways for other people limit the use of a giant wasp but ways for C2 to pretend the giant wasp is limited so that people can't actually prepare effective counters to it.
And of course the best fake weaknesses are ones that C2 thinks are weaknesses but realizes are not when desperate for a solution... at least in moderation.
What type of game is it? RPG, FPS, strategy, card based, puzzle, text based?